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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Restructure, restructure, restructure&#8221;</title>
	<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/</link>
	<description>against.all.odds</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>I'm based in nyc at Columbia University.  I'm a campus chaplain employed by InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use this blog since it's my first time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m based in nyc at Columbia University.  I&#8217;m a campus chaplain employed by InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying to figure out how to use this blog since it&#8217;s my first time.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam.</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-221</guid>
		<description>Great to hear from you, Ashley! Look forward to getting to know you more here at VOX. Where abouts are you based?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to hear from you, Ashley! Look forward to getting to know you more here at VOX. Where abouts are you based?</p>
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		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-220</guid>
		<description>sam,
thanks for the welcome to the community.  since it's my first time blogging, I was suprised by your initiative and it communicates to me that this can be a real community.

We are in the beginning of restructuring our ministry and our team definitely resonates with the prophetic word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sam,<br />
thanks for the welcome to the community.  since it&#8217;s my first time blogging, I was suprised by your initiative and it communicates to me that this can be a real community.</p>
<p>We are in the beginning of restructuring our ministry and our team definitely resonates with the prophetic word.</p>
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		<title>By: kris</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-145</guid>
		<description>ooops - i just realized that i didn't paste in your quote i'm jumping onto:

The church needs to function like the tabernacle: as a mobile structure, ready to follow the leading of GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Spirit. Very often churches buildings, organisational structures, and a whole host of other things, actually have ended up immobilising churches and churches have become slaves to their structures rather than the structures serving them as they follow the Spirit and seek to further the kingdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ooops - i just realized that i didn&#8217;t paste in your quote i&#8217;m jumping onto:</p>
<p>The church needs to function like the tabernacle: as a mobile structure, ready to follow the leading of GodÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Spirit. Very often churches buildings, organisational structures, and a whole host of other things, actually have ended up immobilising churches and churches have become slaves to their structures rather than the structures serving them as they follow the Spirit and seek to further the kingdom.</p>
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		<title>By: kris</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-144</guid>
		<description>jumping onto the thread ~ you said 
 
i think this is a keen observation. along w/ Allen, i've been walking thru' many of these issues and questioning how it got to be this way in so many churches. The tug has been on my heart to step back and observe 'the church' as well as MY church. 
My observations so far include (in many cases) huge resources being invested in maintaining infrastructures that are not inherently 'un-kingdom' related, but not particularly kingdom driven. (does that make sense??) 
i won't go into any detail, as i think we could all come up w/ examples of this. it takes incredible, passionately God-driven leadership for a church to avoid falling into that cycle, i think. ego, lack of clarity, debt, routine, fear of change, immaturity in the body and/or leaders -- all of these and more can create the small tear which potentially leads to the unraveling of an infrustructure. 
i agree w/ Bobby V - Lordship in MY life comes first ... and then a desire to seek community with others on the kingdom path and make a difference in a dying world .... so ... i come full-circle -- still seeking God on how to clean the painting in such a way that it draws people into its beauty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jumping onto the thread ~ you said </p>
<p>i think this is a keen observation. along w/ Allen, i&#8217;ve been walking thru&#8217; many of these issues and questioning how it got to be this way in so many churches. The tug has been on my heart to step back and observe &#8216;the church&#8217; as well as MY church.<br />
My observations so far include (in many cases) huge resources being invested in maintaining infrastructures that are not inherently &#8216;un-kingdom&#8217; related, but not particularly kingdom driven. (does that make sense??)<br />
i won&#8217;t go into any detail, as i think we could all come up w/ examples of this. it takes incredible, passionately God-driven leadership for a church to avoid falling into that cycle, i think. ego, lack of clarity, debt, routine, fear of change, immaturity in the body and/or leaders &#8212; all of these and more can create the small tear which potentially leads to the unraveling of an infrustructure.<br />
i agree w/ Bobby V - Lordship in MY life comes first &#8230; and then a desire to seek community with others on the kingdom path and make a difference in a dying world &#8230;. so &#8230; i come full-circle &#8212; still seeking God on how to clean the painting in such a way that it draws people into its beauty.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam.</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-142</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your honesty, Jess. I'll probably start by saying two things: First off, I am definitely anti the huge amount of church hopping that takes place with way too many Christians. Secondly though, I believe that it is essential we are always listening to God about where He wants us to be.

Maybe my own recent journey with leaving the church I was assistant pastor of to start something from scratch with my wife and two friends will help. Basically, we have both (my wife, Rachel, and I) had a degree of frustration with the church we were part of but we both knew that leaving because of a few frustrations would never be the right thing to do. I have always felt that the only reason you should leave a church is because God is specifically calling you into something new. It's not enough to want to leave something behind, I believe that God typically only moves people on into something specific.

I guess in terms of your thoughts and questions, if I was you, I'd just be taking time to see what God is trying to say through everything. Is He moving you on into something new? Or is He awakening something in you to affect where you are now? I guess ultimately, there's no need to rush or make a sudden decision. Take your time, seek God's direction, invite some close friends to pray with you, and talk to relevant people at your church. We actually asked two couples to pray for us without telling them what to pray for. We just told them to seek God and see if He showed them anything about us! Amazingly, they came back with very strong words confirming what we felt in our hearts that God was calling us to start something new.

I've probably gone on way too long. I hope that helps, but feel back to come back with any more questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your honesty, Jess. I&#8217;ll probably start by saying two things: First off, I am definitely anti the huge amount of church hopping that takes place with way too many Christians. Secondly though, I believe that it is essential we are always listening to God about where He wants us to be.</p>
<p>Maybe my own recent journey with leaving the church I was assistant pastor of to start something from scratch with my wife and two friends will help. Basically, we have both (my wife, Rachel, and I) had a degree of frustration with the church we were part of but we both knew that leaving because of a few frustrations would never be the right thing to do. I have always felt that the only reason you should leave a church is because God is specifically calling you into something new. It&#8217;s not enough to want to leave something behind, I believe that God typically only moves people on into something specific.</p>
<p>I guess in terms of your thoughts and questions, if I was you, I&#8217;d just be taking time to see what God is trying to say through everything. Is He moving you on into something new? Or is He awakening something in you to affect where you are now? I guess ultimately, there&#8217;s no need to rush or make a sudden decision. Take your time, seek God&#8217;s direction, invite some close friends to pray with you, and talk to relevant people at your church. We actually asked two couples to pray for us without telling them what to pray for. We just told them to seek God and see if He showed them anything about us! Amazingly, they came back with very strong words confirming what we felt in our hearts that God was calling us to start something new.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve probably gone on way too long. I hope that helps, but feel back to come back with any more questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam.</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-141</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts, Simon. Who'd of thought that a bird doing it's business on your car could lead to such spiritual insights!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts, Simon. Who&#8217;d of thought that a bird doing it&#8217;s business on your car could lead to such spiritual insights!</p>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-139</guid>
		<description>I do see your point, Sam. Thanks. This, I know already. I wonder, though...

I'm not sure the community I'm in is the right one for me, anymore. I am very different now from when I first joined, which is a testament to God's power...and my reasons for joining were based on desperation--I needed to belong somewhere, anywhere, and these people were the most accepting. They are also pretty manipulative, insulating...not like a cult...but less airy than I'd like, now that I am a great deal more independant and mature. (I am, really. Ask anyone...) Plus, there's no one my age.

So I am wondering which is more important? Building and maintaining community, no matter what? Or finding rewarding, challenging fellowship? I feel torn between the idea of commitment to a local group of believers who I know and who know me and the desire to be challenged and spurred on in new ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do see your point, Sam. Thanks. This, I know already. I wonder, though&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure the community I&#8217;m in is the right one for me, anymore. I am very different now from when I first joined, which is a testament to God&#8217;s power&#8230;and my reasons for joining were based on desperation&#8211;I needed to belong somewhere, anywhere, and these people were the most accepting. They are also pretty manipulative, insulating&#8230;not like a cult&#8230;but less airy than I&#8217;d like, now that I am a great deal more independant and mature. (I am, really. Ask anyone&#8230;) Plus, there&#8217;s no one my age.</p>
<p>So I am wondering which is more important? Building and maintaining community, no matter what? Or finding rewarding, challenging fellowship? I feel torn between the idea of commitment to a local group of believers who I know and who know me and the desire to be challenged and spurred on in new ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-138</guid>
		<description>Great discussion people, It reminded me of something that i was saying at our cell two or three weeks ago, basically i was telling a story of how a bird had done its buisness on the  windscreen of my car (must have been an eagle from the size of it) anyway I decided it was time for my Car's annual bath so stopped on the way home from work at the car wash (not lazy just my contribution to the economy) when i got home Lis, my wife asked scarcastically if i had got a new car (it wasn't that dirty in the first place honest!). A few Important things to think of here, my wife never makes comment on my car, so she had noticed something different, same car but something was different enough to cause her to comment! just like the painting idea Sam. In the normality of everyday life we miss so much as our focus is on other things maybe what God is saying is Where's Wally? You know those pictures that have a varitety of images and everytime you look at them you pick out something new, How many Wally's can you see in the picture etc... Just for ongoing discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion people, It reminded me of something that i was saying at our cell two or three weeks ago, basically i was telling a story of how a bird had done its buisness on the  windscreen of my car (must have been an eagle from the size of it) anyway I decided it was time for my Car&#8217;s annual bath so stopped on the way home from work at the car wash (not lazy just my contribution to the economy) when i got home Lis, my wife asked scarcastically if i had got a new car (it wasn&#8217;t that dirty in the first place honest!). A few Important things to think of here, my wife never makes comment on my car, so she had noticed something different, same car but something was different enough to cause her to comment! just like the painting idea Sam. In the normality of everyday life we miss so much as our focus is on other things maybe what God is saying is Where&#8217;s Wally? You know those pictures that have a varitety of images and everytime you look at them you pick out something new, How many Wally&#8217;s can you see in the picture etc&#8230; Just for ongoing discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby V</title>
		<link>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-136</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://samradford.voxtropolis.com/2006/01/25/restructure-restructure-restructure/#comment-136</guid>
		<description>I've been following this thread and I got to say, I'm loving my church more and more.  Our Pastor is passionate about kingdom growth and we send over 300 of our congregation on overseas mission trips (Vietnam, Mexico and Afghanistan) every year!  I'm not bragging or anything like that, I'm just saying that there are those "model" churches out there who are more focused on the kingdom than growing their own church.  I'm not going to put a plug on someone else's blog, but my pastor has a book being released next week that addresses this exact issue.  If you want to know who he is and what the book is called, visit my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been following this thread and I got to say, I&#8217;m loving my church more and more.  Our Pastor is passionate about kingdom growth and we send over 300 of our congregation on overseas mission trips (Vietnam, Mexico and Afghanistan) every year!  I&#8217;m not bragging or anything like that, I&#8217;m just saying that there are those &#8220;model&#8221; churches out there who are more focused on the kingdom than growing their own church.  I&#8217;m not going to put a plug on someone else&#8217;s blog, but my pastor has a book being released next week that addresses this exact issue.  If you want to know who he is and what the book is called, visit my blog.</p>
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